Posts Tagged ‘polygamy’

I have discovered the most fun thing. Now granted, it is after 10:00pm, in Indiana, and according to Master Daughter, I am not to be held responsible for any Blog I post after 10:00pm.  Even without any dippers of Jose Cuervo, I can find humor. And, the Tag Cloud thingy I clicked to show on my Blog today is hysterical. 


Just take random words and put them together. It’s like poetry.  So, I’m reading the tags and just having all kinds of ideas for new Blogs. It’s a font of inspiration.

So, here is a sample of my Tag Clouds:


Chicago Chihuahua: Now, are Chihuahua’s different in Chicago than they are in Denver?  I mean, Chihuahua’s in Wyoming have to be black and wear bandanas around their necks. You can’t even buy a pickup truck in Wyoming without proof of black dog ownership.  The Bandana may be a Colorado thing, now that I think of it. Wyomingites don’t want to admit they might have a dog for fun. (No offense, I love Wyoming)


FLDS food foolishness: Do I need to type anything here? Maybe something like, food can’t be red: it’s either the mark of the Devil or of blood, so that means you can’t eat apples (unless you get a heathen to peel them) or tomatoes. What about strawberries and watermelon. Is life worth living without strawberries and watermelon?


Hone Schooling humor: Gosh, what I could do with this.  Now, all you homeschoolers, I know people who do a fantastic job homeschooling; unfortunately, I know too many people who have no business homeschooling. So, look at yourself and only be offended if you are in the last group and don’t write me nasty letters if you know darn well you are doing an excellent job. But, most of the home schooling parents I met had NO sense of humor. I think I’ll stop there before I say something I’ll regret in the morning and then it will be raining, in Indiana, and I won’t be able to go on and delete it and pretend I didn’t say it and I’ll get hate mail Blogs. 


Indiana knitting: Perhaps we could repair our infrastructure that way. When it rains in Indiana you get a party line phone line.  It doesn’t take rain to lose power. That happens once a month whether you want it to or not. The water main is the best; it only breaks every other month.


Polygamy pottery: Is that a coffee pot with eight coffee cups? Could it be a set with one large bowl and eight cereal bowls? Or a tea pot and eight teacups?


Wisconsin writing: That would be the hilarious Blog my niece would have. I will try to get her to join the family Blog-a-thon when I’m up there for the next family wedding.

Okay, I’m going to bed now. Hope I don’t hate myself in the morning.


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This blog is in response to a blogger who posted on my site. I was going to just respond but just can’t shut up about this, so here it is.


Thanks for writing. It’s always good to get another viewpoint and this is an issue that I am very personally involved in; thus it is very emotional for me. First, the easiest issue for me, I take no exception to polygamy. Frankly, I do not see that the government, nor the church, has a right to dictate anyone’s right to a marriage of consenting adults. The proviso: as long as it does not harm another human being. No one should be forced into something, as this gentleman’s great grandmother was, and no one should be so programmed that they do not have free will.


I am a big proponent of the principle of “innocent until proven guilty.” My freshman project was a sculptural piece detailing all the men who had been executed and later proven innocent. But, one of the problems, when investigating child abuse, is that if you do not separate the parents and the children, you will not be able to get a true answer from the children. Children who are abused, are also trained/threatened not to tell anyone else.


It was a long while after we took my daughter’s sons from her, before the one boy quite saying, “He (step-father) did beat me, but only when I deserved it.” He was fifteen, and we told him “no one deserves to be beaten 100 slashes with a horse cinch.”



I am basing my judgments on what I am reading about the FLDS, and I grant that all reporting is not honest and not all issues are probably known. There were girls as young as eight, sworn to marriage. I doubt the authorities know yet whether or not they were also molested or whether the men waited until their wives were twelve before consummating the marriage. If what I read is true, girls as young as thirteen were pregnant. I believe, that in a group of that number of men, who are raised to be pedophiles, that there is at least one of those men who wanted sex with eight year old girls. Just take a look at the National Sex Offender Registry sometime or check your own state’s registry. Just Google “Sex Offenders”+ (insert your state here).


And, I’m sorry, but those are not totally innocent women. Those are women who are brainwashed, many since they were children. They need to be deprogrammed and given a chance. I do not feel they should be put in jail, because they did not have free will, but they did play a part in allowing their children to be abused. There are a lot of children here to process and, I think, they are handling it fairly well at this point.


A balance in the issue of presumed innocence is delicate. In my situation, of taking two of my grandsons, the school system has documented that a thirteen year old boy, was home educated to a second grade level in English and a third grade level in Math. He has a permanent, due to lack of education only, writing disability. The school system, in Indiana, reported the abuse to Wyoming, where it occurred. Withholding education is abuse. They also reported the numerous other abuses the boys related. However, we were told that, because the boys were safe now and the abuse happened in another state, nothing would be done. Even though there are eight other children still in that home.


Had we known, the extent of the abuse, when we took these boys, we would have called out child services immediately, rather than just removing the two boys. It wasn’t until these boys were safe in our home that stories started coming out. It has been nearly three years now and Just the other day I learned that the step-father forced the younger boy to drink gin, every time the step-father opened a new bottle.


All three of these boys see a Clinical Psychologist who has told me that he has a big dilemma with these boys. He is bound to report the abuse, yet he has no physical proof. He has not seen broken arms or bruises. What he has is three boys with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, all of whom have had flashbacks and freaked out. They all have anger and depression issues.


We, as the grandparents, were in their home, with their step-father, twice a week, usually. We were suspicious of things, at times, but other times such a false face was put on the home, that we had no idea what was going on. When they were acting up, the step-father would take them aside and say to them. “You’re being foolish. You need to settle down.” We thought that was nice, to hear him talk to them. We did not know that the word “foolish” was a code for, I will beat you to an within an inch of your life, when your grandparents leave. Sometimes, he nearly did. Two employers knew. One offered the younger boy a home. The middle boy told the other employer. Relatives who visited saw things. We have reported everything that we know and that we suspect to the authorities. Other people have not. They “don’t want to get involved.”


There are still eight children in that home.

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PLEASE NOTE: I am altering this blog from the original “I’m so angry I could spit” first typing in order to comply, as much as I can with fair use of another’s material. So, please do read the link if my quotes, of Ben Stein, don’t make enough sense.

I am raging mad at Ben Stein and his comments on CBS News Sunday Morning. What Did The FLDS Kids Do To Deserve This…  If you missed it, please click on the link and read it because it is absolutely asinine.  I’m going to quote him here though and go through these remarks line by line. But, do read his comments in their entirety.

1st:He stated:  “…I am not a fan of polygamy. …keeping up with one wife. For another, it’s against the law …operating for decades. The authorities… didn’t do a thing about it…!”   

He admits it is a crime, but we are supposed to just let criminals go if they have been doing their crimes for years without getting prosecuted? Does this go for mass murderers too? How about embezzlers? Or is it just for child abusers?

2nd: He stated: “totally unsubstantiated telephone call about sex abuse”

I suggest he read the recent Supreme Court decision about evidence gathered by police. I believe, and I may be wrong as I cannot find it at this moment, but what I remember is that as long as the police had good faith belief that the search they were doing was valid, that the evidence gathered was legal to use.  I suggest that seeing 13, 14, 15,16 year old girls pregnant is pretty much a validation that sexual abuse was going on.

3rd: He stated: “(what is totally incomprehensible) took the small children…. away from their mothers and fathers.”

MY GOD, Ben Stein, would you really feel this way if it was your grandchildren in that compound? Would you want your 15 year old, or younger, granddaughter married off to a 40 or 50 year old man? Would you want your grandchild to look and act like a robot? …To speak in a monotone, give rote answers and not have a thought in their head that wasn’t planted there by an extremist religious man?

4th: He stated: “it’s not the Mormons who are the criminals, it’s the government of Texas.”

Perhaps you should also get your facts straight before you go on national television.  It is not the Mormons, it is the Fundamentalist. It is the American Christian Extremists. It is a group of men (and don’t get me wrong, I love men.), but it is a group of men who are so insecure that they must use their religious beliefs to brainwash women into doing exactly what they say. And, they found out long ago that there are not enough women who they can brainwash, so they need to produce their own. They have children and trade them like baseball cards, so that the interbreeding isn’t too drastic. 

My granddaughters, who I saw and cared for nearly twice a week for ten years, are being raised to believe that the only job a good “Christian” woman can do is to “serve her husband.” They are being educated, in Wyoming, to read a recipe and clean the house. They wear bloomers and long dresses, and yet their one brother can still touch them as he wishes. The oldest, at ten, was already wearing a head covering. How would you like to have your granddaughters raised that way, Ben Stein?

Please excuse any really horrible writing in this. I’m just so angry right now. How any educated, intelligent person can say the drivel he did is beyond me.

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I was reading A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION by Marci Hamilton, Esq this morning, after watching a special on Sunday Morning about the FLDS issue. 

The sticky issue, in the points that were made by Marci Hamilton and bloggers, is that if they would have prosecuted the polygamists from the start, then this whole thing would have been avoided.  I agree with that statement, but I have a problem condoning the government’s interference concerning marriage. 

Two or more adults, no matter what their religion, sex, or race, should have the right to live in the relationship that they chose. UNLESS, and this is a big UNLESS, it is harmful to their children or to another person in the relationship.

It is all too easy to brainwash a human. I have a close family member who has been a victim of brainwashing.  For a time, I also lived under the “techniques” of mind control of another person.  It is not pleasant and I am so glad that I was able to get out of the relationship. 

I do not personally believe in polygamy for myself. I could never adjust to it. However, I just don’t think I have the right to tell someone else how to live; as long as it does not harm another. Please read that again, “AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT HARM ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.”

Does polygamy lead to chld abuse? I do not believe it does. Do men, who want polygamy, also want to abuse their children?  I am afraid that may be the case.

The same man who wishes to have a brainwashed wife; one who wears a long prairie dress, always has a glass of iced tea in her hand to give him, wears a head covering (to show him respect), talks in a quiet whispered monotone, never has a thought of her own in her head and births him babies so he can fill his quiver with arrows, does so to ensure that his wife will not be appealing to another man and he will never lose her. His ego is so weak that he fears he cannot keep a woman any other way.  And, I believe, he also wants to be king of his own little kingdom.

Does he wish to abuse children? He may not call it abuse, but yes, I firmly believe he does. Whether it is sexually, physically or mentally. He wants to be king and ruler and will do what it takes to have his family worship at his feet. He wants a family, not because he loves them, but because he needs to control them to feel worthy.  This also results in him kicking the boys out, as in the FDLS, as soon as possible so they are no threat to his being head of the pack.

Should the wives be taken from FLDS? Yes, until they are able to actually think for themselves. If they refuse and still wish to be treated like chatel, then take any child away they have until they come to their senses. They don’t deserve them.

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I am unhappy to hear that the wives are back with the Texas Polygamist Sect. I do firmly believe in freedom of religion. But, I just cannot believe that these women have freedom of anything, let alone religion.

These women are like  abused children. They do not know any other way of life, most having grown up in this environment.  I believe, they think that everyone is treated like they are and there are no other options. I would have liked to have seen these women given enough time away from their husbands so they could make more of a free choice.

I am not discussing the matter of having multiple partners. To me, that is their choice. What I strongly object to, is being forced to live in an isolated world.

I understand the Amish religion. They know the ‘modern’ world is out there. They even, from my little understanding, encourage their young people to try the outside world so that they can make an informed decision. These polygamist sects do not give anyone a choice.

They wall off their world.  Did you ever see the movie The Village (2004)?  Like the Texas Polygamist Sect, from what I have heard, they tell their children that everyone who is outside the wall is the devil. Their religion is fear and control. The wives and children are virtual slaves. They dress as they are told, they live as they are told, they marry who they are told and give up their children when told.

I have always had a problem with one person telling another person how they should think, look and dress.  It is so odd to me that any woman would dress in a pre-1700/1800, and think nothing of the fact that their husbands and the ruler wears modern clothing.  This shows, in my mind, that it is not about religion or showing respect to God or your husband, It’s about control. It’s about slavery.

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The news from the Polygamist ranch in Texas hits our family too close to home. In fact, my mother refuses to listen to those stories because she fears that this is the fate of my granddaughters. It is certainly something that is always at the top of my mind and my fears.


You see, I feel that my daughter may have Paranoid Schizophrenia. She started acting strangely as a late teenager; although she has been a compulsive liar and a thief much longer than that. Even her children say, “Oh, that’s mom. She lies all the time.” Which is incredibly sad.


She hates doctors and the government and distrusts the outside world. She became involved in a five family group that had decided to scorn the “modern” world several years ago. During that time, her husband became more controlling, more dictating and more involved in ‘his religion’. She talked of having sister-wives. The girls all wear bloomers, long dresses and often head coverings. The boys all wear jeans and shirts and the husband, I am told, sits around in his underwear.


I say “his religion” because he has this habit of changing the words in his bible. To excuse his behavior, he will take a pen and write, “Jesus says” before anything that will justify what he wants. He believes so firmly in Proverbs 22:15, that he takes it to mean he needs to beat children for everything and would use the word “foolishness” as a code word in conversation, to warn them that when we left from our visit, they would be beaten.


He beats with a 2×4, a 1×4 and a horse cinch. They see nothing wrong with locking their children in the closet for up to a solid month, or making them sit on a wooden chair, day and night, for a week. There are other things that may be going on that I fear. A two year old’s unnatural interest in sex, is an indication. So, is lifting a little girls dress, while she sits on his lap, to play with her belly button. That may sound innocuous to you but I have witnessed other things that indicate they are being abused in this way. 


My sister-in-law took to throwing my daughter’s Christmas letters away, half way through reading them, as they detailed that my daughter’s oldest son, by her second husband, was going to college to be an architect and the four girls just couldn’t wait to be good little wives and mothers. They love doing dishes so much. My daughter and her newest husband now have a total of eight children and have lost three, beside the three we took from her home. We have never been able to see the youngest as we are now not allowed to visit. 


Now, I am not saying that there is anything wrong with staying home with your children, or being a good wife and mother. Frankly, I wish that every family could afford to have a parent home with their children. Maybe then, things like girls videotaping themselves beating up other girls would never happen. Too many parents have to work too many hours and then feel guilty about it and do not enforce rules like they perhaps should. 


We took our daughter’s three oldest boys away from her home three years ago. My husband, who is not their blood grandfather, adopted them when they were little as we watched my daughter deteriorate from sanity and then into brainwashing. These boys each had a different biological father. She was married once also, with no children. Then, she married this man. God help that day from ever happening to your loved ones. 


When we went to visit her out west, three years ago, we were having a wonderful visit with our grandkids when these two boys let us know things weren’t right. The oldest had already moved in with us. The youngest of the three, at thirteen, told his only option, in life, was suicide. He had tried to run away and had been told that should he try again his step-father would “hunt him down and shoot him like a dog.” the middle boy, at 16, asked to come live with us because he could not take his home life any longer. 


When we faced my daughter and offered to bring her and the other eight children to live with us, she jumped up screaming and pacing, “How dare you talk to me without my husband present.” Never mind the fact that she had come back to live with us three times in the past. But, as I watched her great agitation as she ran to the phone to call her husband home, at that moment, I knew my daughter was lost to me. And, that I would now lose my other grandchildren, who I had cared for constantly, before that time.  


One thing that makes me angry, is after the boys moved in, I found out that the step-father’s last two employer’s, he manages ranches/etc, each had knowledge of some of the abuse. One of them, offered the younger boy, a home. The other had been told by the middle boy what was going on, as had a friend of theirs. No one did anything. No one reported it to authorities. 


How we were blinded, or hid, from what was going on is our shame and I will always regret it. The youngest boy was thirteen at that time. We were told by my daughter that this boy was tested “borderline retarded” (her words not mine). When we brought him to our home and he was tested at our school, he tested as second grade in English and third grade in math. Three years later, he is now a freshman in mainstreamed high school classes. He does have a writing disability because he had not been taught to write at the right age. She did this to him. He is very bright and now must fight a disability, he should not have. 


All three boys have a clinical psychologist, who has diagnosed them as having post-traumatic stress disorder. One boy, hides what has happened to him. The psychologist fears what this might do to him in the future, but the boy refuses to talk about certain things. They all sit around and laugh at the good old days when their mother gave them 100 swats for this and their father used the horse cinch on them for another 100, when he came in. I leave the room with tears in my eyes as they laugh about the “good old times” and wonder how I could have missed the extent of it.


I am so angry. I am so worried. Two people had knowledge. Our school system reported the abuse. I also sent a package detailing it and our suspicions for the girls. Both my mother and mother-in-law noticed things not right there, and yet, nothing is done. We don’t have the money to go 1,000 miles away and see to it. But, I know these kids are not being educated properly. That these precious little girls are being hit with a wooden paddle, not just a swat, but until they stand still and do not move. I know that they are not being home schooled to their potential, or even close. Why is this allowed?


 Thanks for listening.








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